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Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 3:11 PM
Subject: Incline Club V4 TH #14 LR #33
Hi all,
As you will read below there were some really good comments on the Incline
question I posed last week. There were others but the writers asked that
their comments not be posted. At any rate, the most important thing to know
is that we will no longer be doing the Incline as a club workout unless of
course the COG changes their mind about the access issue.
Incline (in-klin’) v.
1. To deviate from the horizontal.
Rest assured that the Incline Club will continue to deviate from the
horizontal! However, we do not need to run on a certain incline to be the
Incline Club. Lets move onward — and upward;-)
####
Thursday, July 6, 5:30 p.m. meet at Soda Springs Park.
Warm-up to Hydro Street. 30 minutes of 1 minute hard, 1 minute easy from
Hydro Street up the Barr Trail. Easy run back down and then 10 Hydro Street
hill repeats. Cool down back to park.
Sunday, July 9, 7 a.m. meet just past the Pikes Peak Toll Booth.
Elk Park Trail to Barr Camp then to the summit 2-4 hours.
Or
>From the bottom to the top from Soda Springs Park at 7 a.m.
####
Several have commented about the high cost of the highway (even with a
discounted pass). If you are willing to do some trail work at the top I have
passes I can give you to go up for free:-) Again this is because the Incline
Club has adopted the top mile of the Barr Trail. So far we have put in 24
person-hours of work up there and it is looking great! Thanks to all of you
who have put in some “rare air” time:-)
####
Kevin D writes:
Thanks again for your hospitality during my recent visit. I enjoyed the
group run and particularly the doughnuts @ the Summit. They will taste even
better after the Ascent. Special thanks to Kevin C for hanging around and
Valerie for the encouraging push up the mountain.
####
Connilee W writes:
I’m glad you asked about the Incline... because I LOVE it as a workout, I
LOVE pushing myself and being inspired by the other club members to push
harder and better my time, I LOVE having just one timed distance workout to
measure progress! However, I am SICK of the other runners, hikers, and
walkers who are too lazy to park in an area that does not interfere with the
COG’s business. I am SICK of the Incline club taking a bad rap for this kind
of behavior when it is not even our doing!
As far as the general controversy surrounding the Incline as a ‘scar’ — I
don’t really believe it will ever be able to recover, whether we’re running
it or not. But, I for one am ready to say forget the Incline: there are
better workouts for us as runner’s and for the club’s reputation. Okay, like
I said, thanks for asking, I feel better now. ;)
P.S. It would be awesome to find an alternative timed distance workout at
another location...
####
Paul D writes:
Is it (the Incline) worth it? In a word, no. However, here are the problems
as I see them with simply not doing the incline anymore:
1) Unless we advertise the fact we aren’t running it anymore (relying on the
Gazette), we’ll still be associated with the controversy.
2) Even if the Gazette does advertise the fact we aren’t doing it anymore,
our name will still cause confusion.
3) By saying we aren’t going to do the incline anymore, we are in a way
admitting we were doing something wrong in the first place, and I firmly
believe we weren’t — the Gazette muddled two completely different issues
together (trespassing on the incline / parking in the Cog parking lot) and
we were only doing the first. It seems to me the thing that has pissed off
the Cog is the parking issue (and rightly so), and not the trespassing
issue. While it is clear as day to us that these issues are different, I am
beginning to wonder if the Cog and the Gazette somehow think you can’t
possibly do the incline without parking in that lot!
It boils down to this for me — The Cog is obviously serious about the
parking, as proven by the tickets/towings. If they are also serious about
the trespassing, they need to start enforcing that too (ie, chasing people
off regardless of where they parked).
If/when they start enforcing the trespassing, I say we immediately stop
doing the incline.
####
Gary H writes:
About doing workouts on the Incline:
My opinion is that it’s not worth it. I have several reasons for this:
1. It’s illegal. Unless the owners specifically grant us permission
to be there, we’re trespassing. I think we’d do better to respect their
property, but periodically request their permission to train there — if
we’re “good,” they may eventually say yes; if not, don’t bet on ANYONE
being allowed there. Better to point out how we’ve respected their
wishes (rights, actually), and have been complying with their parking
requirements, too. I like being known as the Incline Club — I don’t
want to become known as the “Outlaw Club.”
2. It’s not that good a workout, anyway. As you mentioned yesterday,
our group gets more benefit from other workouts, such as the 30-minute
tempo runs, or the minute-hard, minute-easy workout. I think doing the
Incline helps train one to do better on the Incline, but not necessarily
to do better in races or other training. In fact, beginning last
summer, I’ve started viewing the Incline days as training detractors,
instead of being beneficial, since they mean I won’t get in a better
workout instead.
3. We can get an equivalent workout elsewhere, without causing
problems. If someone decides they really need the strengthening that
the Incline workout provides, they can get it a number of other places
where it’s legal (including running stadium stairs or using their local
gym StairMaster, if they are so inclined (no pun intended ;) )).
4. It’s passe. A few years ago, the Incline Club was small, and the
Incline workout was an interesting novelty. Now we are quite large, and
still growing, and EVERYONE does the Incline, so it’s just not that
unique anymore. I like retaining the Incline Club name for historical
reasons, but don’t think we need to continue training there to maintain
the association. We’ve always welcomed all runners into the Club -
running the Incline has never been a prerequisite for joining our club,
and members shouldn’t feel that they have to do the Incline just because
of our name.
In short, I say let’s be good citizens and deal fairly with the owners;
if they let us use it with their permission, great; if not, let’s
respect their rights and get in better training runs elsewhere until
they change their minds. I’d prefer that people notice us for the great
race results our members are putting up, not for the “bad boy” things
that you say the paper has been reporting.
####
Cindy O writes:
Here’s my 2 cents worth about training on the incline (since you asked for
opinions).
To keep the peace with the COG, to avoid “the law,” and to remove any
tarnish from our otherwise stellar Incline club reputation I think it might
be a good idea to remove the incline workout from our regular training
schedule. Maybe to keep everyone happy (including me) we could do it in
secret as an “Incline club only race” once or twice a year. Here are the
positive reasons for removing it from our regular schedule:
- Club wouldn’t be fined for trespassing.
- Anyone can still go up the incline on their own.
- Rotating the workouts we have without the incline would still be fun and
excellent training.
- The incline (all-out) takes longer than most workouts to recover from, and
removing it might mean our weekend race or training run could be better.
- Possibly we could do a secret “incline club only race” in the fall when
our peak races are over and the COG is less busy. Maybe we could make it
less secret if we did it when the COG is not running (later or earlier in
the season).
I know it’s a tuff decision!
####
Dave S writes:
Thanks for the information about jumping the fence and going into Glen Erie
during the GOG training runs. Even though I ran all but one GOG training
run, I always ran with the group on the roads and wasn’t aware of the fence
jumping. I’ll mention it to the guys that organize the training runs so
they don’t do it again next year.
On the Thursday night runs, the discussion at a PPRR board meeting a year or
so ago was along the lines of liability issues. Since people were going on
private property, and the incline is hazardous, the club was worried about
liability issues, thus they didn’t want to attach the club to the Thursday
runs. There were some clauses in the insurance (which I don’t remember the
exact wording, but Bill Gallegos probably knows), about doing things
properly.
On your question about the Incline itself, it seems pretty simple to me.
The property owner is actively asking people to stay off the property, so we
should respect the rights of the property owner and stay off.
Take care and good luck in Vail this weekend. I hope you make the team.
####
Keith G writes:
When you ask your question: “Is it (The Incline) worth it?”
Are you meaning the Incline itself or the running club? If you mean
the running club, then most definitely it is worth it. The club has
grown and become something most of us look forward to doing each and
every Sunday morning. We want it to continue to grow. I think we should
follow thru with the idea we had a year or so ago about club t-shirts.
Theresa and Neal own a print shop, we could work a deal with them....
I would gladly wear an “Incline Club” T-shirts to many of the races I do,
like Leadville or any out of state... even the races put on by the PPRR.
If we had t-shirts or racing singlets, we would definitely make a statement
at most races.
As far as the Incline goes... speaking for myself, and I know others feel
the same, we are willing to do whatever it takes to continue to be allowed
to train on it. If you need us to sign a petition or write letters to the
owners of the property, or whoever...let us know. If we make all attempts
possible to keep it open to us but it remains closed then we can decide if
we continue to use it. Maybe we use it in the Spring when the COG is not
open, or later in the evening on Thursday when the COG train has stopped
running for the day.
####
Tim A writes:
Geez, your mailing is longer than the PPRUN newsletter
I do not feel the incline is worth it. I overheard a woman discussing a
“conversation” with an incline employee about a car that was not hers. When
my brother comes out with his family, we will drive to the top instead of
riding the train, so I won’t have to worry about them towing a customer’s
car. That should cost them a few hundred dollars.
As far as breathing goes, there is a movement that espouses nose breathing
as a way to increase VO2. Fine. When you need air, breathe through your
mouth. I can’t believe the extra dehydration is an issue, especially not
when you need a big intake valve. Lord knows, I have a big mouth. As far as
dust and crap, obviously that is negligible or us mouth breathers wouldn’t
be able to increase our VO2. It would decrease instead. Finally, have you
ever seen any world class athlete nose breathe in a race?
Congrats to everyone in the halfmarathon.
####
Robin F writes:
To the defender of Nosers:
I am not a ENT doc, but I like to play one on the internet. Yes, the nasal
passages do have a lining that aids in filtering out particulate matter, but
these hairlike projections do not end at the at the nasopharynx. They
continue all the way down the trachea into the bronchia, so rest assured
that we combo nose/mouth breathers are still enjoying the same clean air
that you are. I think an argument could be made for a handful of runners
that nose breathing alone supplies sufficient oxygen to the lungs, but these
are runners who for kicks slide nickels into their nose, then spit them out
their mouths. Those of us with relatively normal sized noses (excusing my
current swelling secondary to a softball being introduced to the bridge of
my nose yesterday) have a tough time getting enough air through the nose
alone while running at 12-14,000 feet. Breathing through the mouth alone
will increase the volume of air, but it is almost impossible to isolate the
mouth for breathing.
The previous writer was correct that mouth breathing will tend to dry the
mouth, however, we deal with this everyday. Sufficient hydration will
prevent any untoward effects of mouthbreathing. I can also add that in all
my years of running and playing an ENT on the internet, NO ONE has EVER
complained in my presence of complications of an infection of the oral or
nasal mucosa secondary to breathing through their mouths while running. I
have seen of cases of secondary infections of mouthbreathers while running
through hospital wards of quarantined bubonic plague patients, but that is
another story, the moral of which is: do not run training runs through
quarantined biohazardous areas.
Yours for better running, breathing and reading
####
Allen R writes:
Your comments about trail congestion brings back memories. Except for a
3:39 most of my ascent times have been between 3:50 and 4:10. That kind of
puts me right in the middle of the big congestion “plug.” Since I’ve always
been there I guess you could say I have never known anything different so I
just relax and pass when I can. There is a couple of ways I deal with this.
First, when I get stuck for awhile behind a slower runner I think -"well
that gave me a rest which means I will have more energy left above tree
line.” I also use your “on your left — on you left” to let people know I’m
coming by. The last thing is what I call the “touch” factor. Once when I was
trying to pass I accidentally barely touched the other runner. They recoiled
like they had been touched with a hot iron. Maybe it startled them but it
worked and I’ve been using that “trick” occasionally ever since. Oh by the
way no use saying “on your right” above tree line. These poor souls whose
eyes are glazed, breath is hard, and look like they may expire any second
(and I’ve certainly been among them), do not have the energy to move left or
right even a fraction of an inch. If I have anything left I rest behind them
for awhile and when I do go around wonder if I will ever recover :-)
####
Keith L writes:
In light of Bonnie M’s question about getting a “*,” would you please
backtrack & add one for me for June 18th? I ran from Soda Springs Pk up to
A-Frame & back (other than last year’s ascent, first time I had ever done
that!!!). I met & yakked with Dave Sorenson twice on my run — so, he’s my
“reference.” Yep, Dave had another bloody leg!! On my way down, about 15
minutes below A-Frame, 4 hikers politely moved to the side to make way for
me — I hopped past them and then did a not-so-graceful face-plant. Came away
with a bloody elbow & shoulder, but followed your advice & got right up &
resumed the run. Looked a lot worse than it actually was. And besides, it
really impressed the hikers....
Thanks for noting my Sailing Shoes 10K time. My 45:06 was, no kidding, 5+
minutes better than my previous 10K PR from about a year ago. (I would also
like to thank Larry M for moving up to the next age group!)
I just got back yesterday from 2 weeks of backpacking, so will resume my
Club runs after next Sunday’s TCR#2. See ya’ in a couple weeks. Have a
good 4th!
####
www posts:
7/02/2000 23 people headed up Pikes Peak from the bottom. Larry M reports
that most went to Barr Camp and back, some went to the A frame and back and
Tom K went to the top and back. Car race practice kept the club off of Elk
Park today. Even at 7 a.m. it was hot and coming back down was like running
into a blow furnace! Many Incline Clubbers were off for the holiday weekend
doing races.
6/29/2000 36 showed today. We changed the club workout to a 30 minute tempo
run up the Barr Trail which we will substitute for the Incline. Several
blasted by the point they got to two weeks ago! Some commented that they are
learning the art of how to run an even effort over uneven terrain. The 10
(for Glen) repeats on Hydro Street hill left some with rubber legs but most
did them all. Seven people are still working on a perfect record for
Thursday attendance!
####
Go out hard, when it hurts speed up...
Matt Carpenter
http://www.skyrunner.com
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